Comments on: Ten Reasons to Love Java http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/ Technology and Geek Stuff by Eric Burke Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:52:46 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: dario the boring http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-32757 dario the boring Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:02:49 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-32757 (a year later... I know.) The same guy who will tell you how fix that stupid module using hibernate that retrieves 1000000 rows one by one. (a year later… I know.)
The same guy who will tell you how fix that stupid module using hibernate that retrieves 1000000 rows one by one.

]]> By: Smitty http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6911 Smitty Fri, 29 Feb 2008 21:02:29 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6911 @afsina and dario: We're all code monkeys! We just live in different jungles. Way to keep your ping-pong positive and up-beat. I love different opinions and sides of the story. Especially when it's kept professional. I've always had a persistence layer to write data to using Java. Usually it's an Oracle back-end. I've seen performance soar, and I've seen it crash to smithereens. I've watched DBA's cry as they upgraded from Oracle 7,8,9, and 10g. In every case they loathed the recompiling and troubleshooting stored procedures and PL-SQL. I've seen them throw parties for Java developers when they wrote code to replace those cursed SP's. I've seen them threaten to slash the same developers throats when the database grew to the terrabytes level and choked on genetic sequence data. It's not that DBA's are fickle, they're just like Java developers. Under extreme pressure to perform, but not given full control of the problem domain. Still, in most organizations, we still have to work with each other. Besides, without a DBA, who'd add that extra table column I need 8^). @afsina and dario: We’re all code monkeys! We just live in different jungles. Way to keep your ping-pong positive and up-beat. I love different opinions and sides of the story. Especially when it’s kept professional.

I’ve always had a persistence layer to write data to using Java. Usually it’s an Oracle back-end. I’ve seen performance soar, and I’ve seen it crash to smithereens. I’ve watched DBA’s cry as they upgraded from Oracle 7,8,9, and 10g. In every case they loathed the recompiling and troubleshooting stored procedures and PL-SQL. I’ve seen them throw parties for Java developers when they wrote code to replace those cursed SP’s. I’ve seen them threaten to slash the same developers throats when the database grew to the terrabytes level and choked on genetic sequence data.

It’s not that DBA’s are fickle, they’re just like Java developers. Under extreme pressure to perform, but not given full control of the problem domain.

Still, in most organizations, we still have to work with each other. Besides, without a DBA, who’d add that extra table column I need 8^).

]]> By: afsina http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6878 afsina Fri, 29 Feb 2008 01:46:11 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6878 very possible dario. you should see the steaming pile of code i have to deal with nowadays. very possible dario. you should see the steaming pile of code i have to deal with nowadays.

]]> By: dario the boring http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6862 dario the boring Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:03:57 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6862 may be the people I work suck in java... :-) may be the people I work suck in java…
:-)

]]> By: dario the boring http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6851 dario the boring Thu, 28 Feb 2008 15:35:50 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6851 I have probably seen different things. Yes, I have seen debugging of stored procedures. I't can be a nightmare, if you do not know how to do it (not saying you can't). I bet I can have one if I debug java... Regarding propietary language, you can do stored procedures on java on Oracle (big vendor) and postgresql (bsd license). You can build external procedures on C for both platforms... "any colour" And advanced text indexing exists and it's well done. It can be transactional or not... but I can not stand that since I do not know your business case. Regarding data not clean... I ask somebody to clean it on jboss, and then will feed it to the database. Again, that's what I know. And I'm not saying "do not use java"... It's a swiss knife. Yes. But it will not replace an axe. But it could change. Something could make me change my point of view. An object database, a jboss cluster (trying to read about it). It didn't change to me yet... I have probably seen different things.

Yes, I have seen debugging of stored procedures. I’t can be a nightmare, if you do not know how to do it (not saying you can’t). I bet I can have one if I debug java…
Regarding propietary language, you can do stored procedures on java on Oracle (big vendor) and postgresql (bsd license). You can build external procedures on C for both platforms… “any colour”
And advanced text indexing exists and it’s well done. It can be transactional or not… but I can not stand that since I do not know your business case.

Regarding data not clean… I ask somebody to clean it on jboss, and then will feed it to the database.

Again, that’s what I know. And I’m not saying “do not use java”… It’s a swiss knife. Yes. But it will not replace an axe. But it could change. Something could make me change my point of view. An object database, a jboss cluster (trying to read about it).

It didn’t change to me yet…

]]> By: afsina http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6824 afsina Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:28:27 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6824 dario: it is not a trend. the domain you are talking about is shrinking very fast. The applications requiring big amount of data calculations (like Data warehouses) are very rare. Now not even banks needs database driven applications anymore (i mean stored procedures with application facade). i saw the perils of stored procedure driven data ware houses, or other applications. failing miserably when incoming data was not as clean as expected and required real intelligence to clean it up. stupid soundex tricks does not work, or basic text indexing starts not cutting it. You are also tied to a propriety language with flimsy tool support. Licensing costs are higher than Hardware costs.. Have you watched a person debugging a complex stored procedure? DB driven development is dying. and i am not sad about it. dario: it is not a trend. the domain you are talking about is shrinking very fast. The applications requiring big amount of data calculations (like Data warehouses) are very rare. Now not even banks needs database driven applications anymore (i mean stored procedures with application facade). i saw the perils of stored procedure driven data ware houses, or other applications. failing miserably when incoming data was not as clean as expected and required real intelligence to clean it up. stupid soundex tricks does not work, or basic text indexing starts not cutting it. You are also tied to a propriety language with flimsy tool support. Licensing costs are higher than Hardware costs.. Have you watched a person debugging a complex stored procedure? DB driven development is dying. and i am not sad about it.

]]> By: dario the boring http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6822 dario the boring Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:38:01 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6822 afisna: business logic in application is a trend. And of course, it will serve well some cases. Tiny objects, with little time-to-live. Web alike aplications. Great. Large sets of data, large processes... performance doom. Managers fired. Use any language. C#, Java, Perl, basic. Build great data - frontends (I do not mean "windows" or "gui"). Transform data to generate xml files, SOA, "any colour you like, as long as" it just invoke a stored procedure. I do not use jboss to do large analytics of finantials. And I wouldn't use an AS/400 to serve web request. And if you say "hardware will evolve and limits will dissapear", I'will say "banks still use mainframes and won't go to relational database in 20 years, people will still download data from tables and sort it with cobol. And then, they will store dna of clients, and hardware will not be enough". (this comment could be invalidated when first object oriented "terabyte real world performance" database appears... Or until proved wrong or drunked) Dennis S: headlines are fun. Explanations, bored. Proud boring, then. Do not take this personally. Comments usually are cold and looks like an attack. I could be drinking coffee and talking with any of you, and let's agree that you are wrong (said by any of us). I will be working with java the following next 5 years, and same thing will happen to you with databases. Good thing. It will not be bored. Except for fortram programmers... Mmm... now fortram programmers will post comments also telling me "apropos" :-) sys64738 afisna: business logic in application is a trend. And of course, it will serve well some cases. Tiny objects, with little time-to-live. Web alike aplications. Great. Large sets of data, large processes… performance doom. Managers fired.

Use any language. C#, Java, Perl, basic. Build great data – frontends (I do not mean “windows” or “gui”). Transform data to generate xml files, SOA, “any colour you like, as long as” it just invoke a stored procedure.

I do not use jboss to do large analytics of finantials. And I wouldn’t use an AS/400 to serve web request.

And if you say “hardware will evolve and limits will dissapear”, I’will say “banks still use mainframes and won’t go to relational database in 20 years, people will still download data from tables and sort it with cobol. And then, they will store dna of clients, and hardware will not be enough”.

(this comment could be invalidated when first object oriented “terabyte real world performance” database appears… Or until proved wrong or drunked)

Dennis S: headlines are fun. Explanations, bored. Proud boring, then.

Do not take this personally. Comments usually are cold and looks like an attack. I could be drinking coffee and talking with any of you, and let’s agree that you are wrong (said by any of us).

I will be working with java the following next 5 years, and same thing will happen to you with databases.

Good thing. It will not be bored. Except for fortram programmers… Mmm… now fortram programmers will post comments also telling me “apropos” :-)

sys64738

]]> By: afisna http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6779 afisna Tue, 26 Feb 2008 15:47:18 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6779 dario: Business logic in databases is doomed. And should be avoided like a plague unless there is a really good reason (most of the time i don't see that reason). dario: Business logic in databases is doomed. And should be avoided like a plague unless there is a really good reason (most of the time i don’t see that reason).

]]> By: Dennis S http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6776 Dennis S Tue, 26 Feb 2008 14:19:39 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6776 @dario, boring is apropos... @Clinton get over it... 10-1 or 1-10 good thought (as usual) I just angst for applications and custom frameworks in Java to have good JavaDocs, so that I can trust/use them rather than having to drill down to the source. My 11... a cornucopia of support, tutorials and development to keep it interesting. Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. (Sorry Dennis Miller) @dario, boring is apropos… @Clinton get over it… 10-1 or 1-10 good thought (as usual) I just angst for applications and custom frameworks in Java to have good JavaDocs, so that I can trust/use them rather than having to drill down to the source. My 11… a cornucopia of support, tutorials and development to keep it interesting. Of course that’s just my opinion, I could be wrong. (Sorry Dennis Miller)

]]> By: dario the boring http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/comment-page-1/#comment-6773 dario the boring Tue, 26 Feb 2008 13:31:02 +0000 http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/02/25/ten-reasons-to-love-java/#comment-6773 I didn't want to behave like a troll, even when the list was an easy target. I would like to add something as caveat emptor: I'm a dba. I like things on the database (like = think this issue should be solved this way, because of my previous experience, not seen somewhere, but experienced, and proved with numbers and managers turning blue when performance goes down). So, regarding 4), I deeply support my thoughts... Others... can be gone with the wind. It will change, it's allways changing. Regarding money and investing on a language, I could think on money invested on cobol and hardware back then as huge mountains of money. And Java, is jvm, and language, and eclipse, and ant, since I do not use eclipse if I'm not doing Java... I'm an outsider. And regarding java being a "frontend"... well, that was "tongue in cheek"... But I can prove it ;-) sorry for my english I didn’t want to behave like a troll, even when the list was an easy target. I would like to add something as caveat emptor: I’m a dba. I like things on the database (like = think this issue should be solved this way, because of my previous experience, not seen somewhere, but experienced, and proved with numbers and managers turning blue when performance goes down). So, regarding 4), I deeply support my thoughts… Others… can be gone with the wind. It will change, it’s allways changing. Regarding money and investing on a language, I could think on money invested on cobol and hardware back then as huge mountains of money. And Java, is jvm, and language, and eclipse, and ant, since I do not use eclipse if I’m not doing Java… I’m an outsider. And regarding java being a “frontend”… well, that was “tongue in cheek”… But I can prove it ;-)

sorry for my english

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