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	<title>Comments on: Scala Will Do</title>
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	<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/</link>
	<description>Technology and Geek Stuff by Eric Burke</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 27 Feb 2010 14:52:46 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Kaleb Brasee</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-40124</link>
		<dc:creator>Kaleb Brasee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:44:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-40124</guid>
		<description>OldFart speaks the most practical truth of anyone here.  I&#039;m going to check out Scala because it looks cool, but don&#039;t expect it to replace Java as the bread-and-butter any time soon.  I assume that we&#039;ll have a Next Big Thing within 10 or 20 years, but Java&#039;s exit strategy will be very much like COBOLs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OldFart speaks the most practical truth of anyone here.  I&#8217;m going to check out Scala because it looks cool, but don&#8217;t expect it to replace Java as the bread-and-butter any time soon.  I assume that we&#8217;ll have a Next Big Thing within 10 or 20 years, but Java&#8217;s exit strategy will be very much like COBOLs.</p>
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		<title>By: OldFart</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-39866</link>
		<dc:creator>OldFart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 20:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-39866</guid>
		<description>As an old fart, I have been following this argument for 25 years now.  I have learned that programming is like surfing.  You paddle out to the deep water and wait for a good wave that will hopefully give you a good ride all the way in.  The problem is, you really can&#039;t tell how good the wave is going to be by the way it looks in the deep water.

Programming languages are a lot like waves.  There have been some really great looking waves that never went anywhere.  The best example I have seen in my 25 years is Smalltalk.  If Smalltalk had come along about 7 years later, no one would be talking about Java.  Java became the big wave that it is not because it&#039;s such a great language but because it became the hot new language just as everyone on earth was looking to convert their applications to web applications.  

The big waves only happen when there is a big change in computing technology.  There have been only a few big waves.

Scientific computation =  FORTRAN
Main Frames / corporate data processing = COBOL
Microcomputers / Desktop application = C/C++
Internet applications = Java

Every wave had other languages that were great but never succeeded.  Lisp, Forth, Smalltalk, just to name a few.

Ruby is cool but a search for &quot;Ruby&quot; on dice returns about 500 jobs.  In the Spring of 2007 that number was over 800.  Java has returned between 7000 and 10000 jobs since I started tracking it 6 years ago. Ruby will never exceed Java in popularity.  The same is true for Scala.  

If you want to make a living writing software,  you better catch your wave before age 40.  No one is going to pay an old fart like me the salary I demand to sit in a cube and learn Scala.  Especially when there are plenty of 20 somethings out there who are dieing to learn the latest/greatest language for half the price.  But then, a dice search for &quot;Scala&quot; return 4 so I guess no one is going to pay someone to learn Scala.

If you know Java,  there will someone who is willing to pay you good money make their tens of thousands of lines of poorly written java do what they want it to do.  At least for the next 20 years.

If you don&#039;t believe me just do a dice search on &quot;COBOL&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an old fart, I have been following this argument for 25 years now.  I have learned that programming is like surfing.  You paddle out to the deep water and wait for a good wave that will hopefully give you a good ride all the way in.  The problem is, you really can&#8217;t tell how good the wave is going to be by the way it looks in the deep water.</p>
<p>Programming languages are a lot like waves.  There have been some really great looking waves that never went anywhere.  The best example I have seen in my 25 years is Smalltalk.  If Smalltalk had come along about 7 years later, no one would be talking about Java.  Java became the big wave that it is not because it&#8217;s such a great language but because it became the hot new language just as everyone on earth was looking to convert their applications to web applications.  </p>
<p>The big waves only happen when there is a big change in computing technology.  There have been only a few big waves.</p>
<p>Scientific computation =  FORTRAN<br />
Main Frames / corporate data processing = COBOL<br />
Microcomputers / Desktop application = C/C++<br />
Internet applications = Java</p>
<p>Every wave had other languages that were great but never succeeded.  Lisp, Forth, Smalltalk, just to name a few.</p>
<p>Ruby is cool but a search for &#8220;Ruby&#8221; on dice returns about 500 jobs.  In the Spring of 2007 that number was over 800.  Java has returned between 7000 and 10000 jobs since I started tracking it 6 years ago. Ruby will never exceed Java in popularity.  The same is true for Scala.  </p>
<p>If you want to make a living writing software,  you better catch your wave before age 40.  No one is going to pay an old fart like me the salary I demand to sit in a cube and learn Scala.  Especially when there are plenty of 20 somethings out there who are dieing to learn the latest/greatest language for half the price.  But then, a dice search for &#8220;Scala&#8221; return 4 so I guess no one is going to pay someone to learn Scala.</p>
<p>If you know Java,  there will someone who is willing to pay you good money make their tens of thousands of lines of poorly written java do what they want it to do.  At least for the next 20 years.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t believe me just do a dice search on &#8220;COBOL&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Mustang</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-34081</link>
		<dc:creator>Mustang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 22:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-34081</guid>
		<description>Can you use your power to tell me the lottery numbers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you use your power to tell me the lottery numbers?</p>
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		<title>By: Akintayo A. Olusegun</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-21865</link>
		<dc:creator>Akintayo A. Olusegun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 13:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-21865</guid>
		<description>My Software Director is an impossible man when it comes to knowing things. 

Phone rings.....: Hey segun is that you....yes its me....look lately I&#039;ve been looking around scala, I will send some docs to you now, go thru them and by monday, I want you to start converting XXXXXX to scala.....but today is friday, I was hoping to rest this weekend....(laughs)my bad, see you on monday

So begins my journey with scala. This friday makes it a week. You will darn say its too early for me to start commenting right? well I will comment anyway.

When I picked Ruby up 2 years ago(I dumped it after a month), I have the same feelings I am having with scala now. These languages should just stop comparing themselves to java. What are your strengths, not what are the things you do better than java.

That I think is their problem. For me(I can code in FP) scala is a badly formed erlang, I will rather code in erlang or haskell than scala (same as I will rather code in php than ruby)

What da heck, I learned VB.NET in one week and say 2 days. After then I was able to write a Remote Webcam Manager with it.

C# even took me less

In one week with erlang, I was able to write a client-server chat application

They say scala is close to java. One of the things I do often is this

while((ch = is.read() != -1) {
  sb.append((char) ch);
}

I hope scalac should just compile this code(I actually have it in like a zillion files)

But No it doesnt

simple cast like that is done like this in scala 

ch.asInstanceOf[char].

that alone, I mean that alone made my Software Director give another call

Phone rings......hey segun is that you....yes.....I think we shud just pipe low on scala,at least for now, what do you think?...I am totally with you sir.

ciao</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Software Director is an impossible man when it comes to knowing things. </p>
<p>Phone rings&#8230;..: Hey segun is that you&#8230;.yes its me&#8230;.look lately I&#8217;ve been looking around scala, I will send some docs to you now, go thru them and by monday, I want you to start converting XXXXXX to scala&#8230;..but today is friday, I was hoping to rest this weekend&#8230;.(laughs)my bad, see you on monday</p>
<p>So begins my journey with scala. This friday makes it a week. You will darn say its too early for me to start commenting right? well I will comment anyway.</p>
<p>When I picked Ruby up 2 years ago(I dumped it after a month), I have the same feelings I am having with scala now. These languages should just stop comparing themselves to java. What are your strengths, not what are the things you do better than java.</p>
<p>That I think is their problem. For me(I can code in FP) scala is a badly formed erlang, I will rather code in erlang or haskell than scala (same as I will rather code in php than ruby)</p>
<p>What da heck, I learned VB.NET in one week and say 2 days. After then I was able to write a Remote Webcam Manager with it.</p>
<p>C# even took me less</p>
<p>In one week with erlang, I was able to write a client-server chat application</p>
<p>They say scala is close to java. One of the things I do often is this</p>
<p>while((ch = is.read() != -1) {<br />
  sb.append((char) ch);<br />
}</p>
<p>I hope scalac should just compile this code(I actually have it in like a zillion files)</p>
<p>But No it doesnt</p>
<p>simple cast like that is done like this in scala </p>
<p>ch.asInstanceOf[char].</p>
<p>that alone, I mean that alone made my Software Director give another call</p>
<p>Phone rings&#8230;&#8230;hey segun is that you&#8230;.yes&#8230;..I think we shud just pipe low on scala,at least for now, what do you think?&#8230;I am totally with you sir.</p>
<p>ciao</p>
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		<title>By: damo9f</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-11827</link>
		<dc:creator>damo9f</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 17:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-11827</guid>
		<description>Scala may or may not turn out to be the new new thing, but the ideas in Scala can be validated even if only a few &quot;thought leaders&quot; use it.  The way it re-defines modules for instance, native XML support and domain-specific-language support to name a few.

Not a supporter of Scala (yet), BTW, just intrigued and would like to see how these concepts play out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scala may or may not turn out to be the new new thing, but the ideas in Scala can be validated even if only a few &#8220;thought leaders&#8221; use it.  The way it re-defines modules for instance, native XML support and domain-specific-language support to name a few.</p>
<p>Not a supporter of Scala (yet), BTW, just intrigued and would like to see how these concepts play out.</p>
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		<title>By: Ol</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-10142</link>
		<dc:creator>Ol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 May 2008 00:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-10142</guid>
		<description>&quot;Take heed Java-haters; Due to the efforts of James Gosling ...&quot;

Thanks to the Sun attempt to bury Objective C and OpenStep, we were left with Java which has struggled with anything out of enterprise development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Take heed Java-haters; Due to the efforts of James Gosling &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks to the Sun attempt to bury Objective C and OpenStep, we were left with Java which has struggled with anything out of enterprise development.</p>
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		<title>By: OzJuggler</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-5366</link>
		<dc:creator>OzJuggler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-5366</guid>
		<description>@owen - Maybe you were trolling, maybe not. If you compare the initial 1.1 release of Java with the first ANSI standard COBOL of 1968, you find they are diferent in syntax, semantics, and vastly different in capability. Objects? Nowhere in sight. GUI... what are they? Networking... hasn&#039;t been invented yet! Not to mention Java&#039;s reason for existence, the magic of RMI. The only thing COBOL and Java have in common is that they&#039;re 3rd generation imperative languages. 
If you meant that Java is like COBOL because 80% of the world&#039;s businesses rely on it... then fine!

@Everyone
Take heed Java-haters; Due to the efforts of James Gosling, Patrick Naughton, and Mike Sheridan, the final crushing ascendency of the evil Microsoft global empire was delayed by at least a decade, and for that last gasp of software freedom in the datacentre we should all be truly thankful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@owen &#8211; Maybe you were trolling, maybe not. If you compare the initial 1.1 release of Java with the first ANSI standard COBOL of 1968, you find they are diferent in syntax, semantics, and vastly different in capability. Objects? Nowhere in sight. GUI&#8230; what are they? Networking&#8230; hasn&#8217;t been invented yet! Not to mention Java&#8217;s reason for existence, the magic of RMI. The only thing COBOL and Java have in common is that they&#8217;re 3rd generation imperative languages.<br />
If you meant that Java is like COBOL because 80% of the world&#8217;s businesses rely on it&#8230; then fine!</p>
<p>@Everyone<br />
Take heed Java-haters; Due to the efforts of James Gosling, Patrick Naughton, and Mike Sheridan, the final crushing ascendency of the evil Microsoft global empire was delayed by at least a decade, and for that last gasp of software freedom in the datacentre we should all be truly thankful.</p>
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		<title>By: Shanti Braford</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-4779</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanti Braford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jan 2008 22:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-4779</guid>
		<description>@Joe - it wasn&#039;t a benchmark.  I&#039;ll take 1% server costs for a startup any day of the week.  (possible I&#039;ve found, for the kind of apps I write, with Ruby on Rails)

The comic does have ruby going into the 2007 dumpster =)  But it&#039;s still funny nonetheless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Joe &#8211; it wasn&#8217;t a benchmark.  I&#8217;ll take 1% server costs for a startup any day of the week.  (possible I&#8217;ve found, for the kind of apps I write, with Ruby on Rails)</p>
<p>The comic does have ruby going into the 2007 dumpster =)  But it&#8217;s still funny nonetheless.</p>
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		<title>By: Javier</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-4575</link>
		<dc:creator>Javier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:57:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-4575</guid>
		<description>Well, anything is &quot;a fundamentally different programming methodology”  compared to a procedural in OO clothing commercial programming landscape ... As far as I have seen, Scala is Java without the rush to market ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, anything is &#8220;a fundamentally different programming methodology”  compared to a procedural in OO clothing commercial programming landscape &#8230; As far as I have seen, Scala is Java without the rush to market &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James Iry</title>
		<link>http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/comment-page-1/#comment-4554</link>
		<dc:creator>James Iry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://stuffthathappens.com/blog/2008/01/02/scala-will-do/#comment-4554</guid>
		<description>Berin Loritch said: &quot;Scala’s downfall if it is to displace C/C++/C#/Java is that it is a fundamentally different programming methodology.&quot;

Nonsense.  Scala is object oriented. In fact it&#039;s very like C++, C#, and Java: it is a single dispatch, statically typed, parametric polymorphic, OO language.  In fact, it is more OO than any of those languages as it doesn&#039;t have a primitive/object dichotomy. The functional aspects are implemented as syntatic sugar on perfectly ordinary OO concepts.

Then he said: &quot;Functional Programming is much more different from Object Oriented Programming (OOP) than OOP is from Procedural Programming.&quot;

More nonsense.  Both are forms of what can be called higher order programming.  In functional programming, functions can be objects.  In single dispatch OO, functions (called methods) must be attached to objects.  That&#039;s the difference.  When you look at it that way it&#039;s easy to see how Scala can unify both worlds - just turn first class functions into OO objects that implement a common interface.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Berin Loritch said: &#8220;Scala’s downfall if it is to displace C/C++/C#/Java is that it is a fundamentally different programming methodology.&#8221;</p>
<p>Nonsense.  Scala is object oriented. In fact it&#8217;s very like C++, C#, and Java: it is a single dispatch, statically typed, parametric polymorphic, OO language.  In fact, it is more OO than any of those languages as it doesn&#8217;t have a primitive/object dichotomy. The functional aspects are implemented as syntatic sugar on perfectly ordinary OO concepts.</p>
<p>Then he said: &#8220;Functional Programming is much more different from Object Oriented Programming (OOP) than OOP is from Procedural Programming.&#8221;</p>
<p>More nonsense.  Both are forms of what can be called higher order programming.  In functional programming, functions can be objects.  In single dispatch OO, functions (called methods) must be attached to objects.  That&#8217;s the difference.  When you look at it that way it&#8217;s easy to see how Scala can unify both worlds &#8211; just turn first class functions into OO objects that implement a common interface.</p>
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